And so, I ex- expanded the sample where we asked about 5000 people. It just that-, Yeah. All rights reserved. So, you're saying they're shocking these people because they thought it was worthwhile? Haber's gas troops, uh, un- unscrewed, they opened the valves on almost 6000 tanks containing a 150 tons of chlorine. "From this time forth, I never will speak a word." They've got a- a very plausible, very credible high status scientist at a high status scientific institution. Well, I mean, I know that sir, but I mean, he's up to a 195 volts. You're cut down before then. But every time the experimenter pulled out the fourth prod And this was confirmed when the experiment was redone in 2006; total disobedience. And what is basically like the Baghdad of his time. Would you really think that this guy's a good guy? And it's a craft, but it's a craft with consequences, and to approach it with kind of crazy joy? That's my thing and that's where I'm going to stand on it. And, um, in January of 1984, the Green River task force was formed. We, as- as onlookers to this study, we have this kind of god-like, uh, sort of vision of, like, well of course what they're doing is wrong. We lived together for a couple months, he was very aggressive, he started calling me a whore, and told me he didn't love me anymore, so I broke up with him. Is that- is that nitrogen is trivalent. Any idea what the hell he was intending? He has such great faith in me." "Definitely yes.". Then suddenly the thought occurred to me that my life would be much happier without him in existence.". Takes away his wife, his children, all his material possessions. I'm not going to give you what you want. And it becomes Zyklon B, the killing gas of the concentration camps. Fast forward 10 years. Okay. Finally acknowledging, "Yeah, that's true." That's Stanley Milgram talking about the experiment in a film in case you've never heard of this. And my dad said, "I don't want to talk about it." Now, we don't actually know if he threw a party. Prosecution, [crosstalk 00:12:03] the Attorney General. That's one of the things we have to know and that's why it's okay to let out. It's very important because if you ask university undergraduates what does the Milgram study show, they will invariably say something like "They show that people obey orders" okay? In that why, in that one simple why that he asked Gary, there was a lot of questions he was asking. He figured maybe one percent of these men would keep flicking the switches, up to the highest voltage. Yes 80 percent of the air is nitrogen atoms. They start disagreeing with each other, and this one you get zero percent going all the way. Like shocking an innocent stranger over and over. I knew what he was capable of, so I suggested that we go out for a walk. Cruelty, violence, badness in this episode we begin with a chilling statistic: 91% of men, and 84% of women, have fantasized about killing someone. Right. What makes a bad person so bad that he's different from the rest of us? Next, we meet a man who scrambles our notions of good and evil: chemist Fritz Haber, who won a Nobel Prize in 1918around the same time officials in the US were calling him a war criminal. And maybe forces hydrogen in the tank. And then Othello goes and kills his own wife, smothering hew with a pillow. Necrophilia. You know what's going to happen if she [inaudible 01:02:25]. That's what we're heading towards. Been through this a lot of times before, and she's already told you she's in a hurry. I'm not going to give you- I'm- I'm not going to help restore the sense that there is a moral order to the world and a moral norm. Nitrogen is an essential part of amino acids and proteins. But we ended up walking this question around different people-. Thanks. But if you put two experimenters in the room, and-. So, he sends a letter to the Ministry of Education resigning and he leaves Germany, telling a friend he felt like he lost his homeland. Thanks. "It's okay to admit this, you need to admit this.". In fact, we hate being told, but we will do it on our own if we think it's good. But- but there's part of me that says, you know, here's a guy who just wanted to do everything better than had ever been done before. Don't- don't the man's health mean anything? She was good to- she was good to me. They're not doing something because they have to. And that's what Shakespeare did in all his plays. And it gets even more disturbing for my father as the conversation suddenly pivots to another victim. And so he says that and you're like, "Okay, yes come over now. "Research in any field is a must, particularly in this day and age." Yeah, me too. I mean, it's a pretty big thing to miss. No one has a monopoly on bad. Okay, one of those very tiny old fashioned pair of glasses that would pinch on your nose. They will spare his son if he fessed up and tells them what they need to know. No reason. This episode of Radiolab, we wrestle with the dark side of human nature, and ask whether it's something we can ever really understand, or fully escape. Radiolab is on a curiosity bender. How could you? You know what? "I need to kill because of that." These violent delights tienen fin violento. You- I mean, I'm not suggesting one should, but I'm just saying there is a sense in which these people are prepared to do something that's very painful to them and to someone else because they want to promote science. And it's kind of surprising, a lot of them are really positive, even though they've just been told that they were duped. That's historian Fritz Stern who also happens to be Fritz Haber's godson. So, he starts experimenting. Does he- is he saying what I think he's saying? What you know, you know.". This is what totally pulled me into this story, the prods. In Shakespeare, or life. When you needed to stop for breath, your hand ran light and steady. In graphic detail. "I'm willing to help in a worthwhile experiment.". That the earth couldn't support this many people. He figured maybe 1% of these men would keep flicking these switches up to the highest voltage, but that's not what he found. in the next room just because they're being told to. Yeah. Then he left some space at the bottom for them to elaborate if they said yes. And this is was the difference between Kaiser Wilhelm and, of course, Hitler's Germany. And everyone thought, "Well, we know the solution. One of the reasons it grows, is because it's sucking up all the nitrogen in the soil. We just need a whole lot more of one simple element. Alex Haslam, professor of psychology at the University of Exeter. I think they have to be extreme in the extreme. Which is a fairly small-ish sort of town, and so does Clara. And he goes home for a few days a hero. So if you have kids in the room, maybe this is a time to tell them to go brush their teeth or something. And you tell us, "Actually, you know under some circumstances, we don't do the bad thing we're told to do because, here's another flip, we don't have to be told. 'cause this room's echo-ey and you know there's nothing like a closet full of clothes to, like, help balance that out. They continued shocking their corpses. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Clara, also from Breslau, also from a Jewish family. Well, have you ever been blackmailed the way this woman was being blackmailed? Radiolab weaves stories and science into sound and music-rich documentaries. Copyright 2019 New York Public Radio. She was one of the first women to earn a PhD in her country. And as soon as it did, soldiers began to convulse. Uh, and he finds her actually still alive with her life running out of her. Or nice chair? So you see it's just in that one experiment that 65 percent of people are willing to go all the way. Only 10% under those circumstances go on. Robert, I'm going to give you this piece of paper here. Do you think that more studies of this sort should be carried out?" And if they didn't go on, if they resisted [crosstalk 00:18:11] the experimenter would break out prod number two. I'm almost done, guys. Especially because she found out he was leaving the next day to direct more gas attacks. To feed about 30 million people. There's trench warfare, it gets bogged down and Haber has an idea. I'm going to take a break. Nobody had done what she was about to do on the scale that he was about to do it. Although, clearly on some level they know it isn't. The story of Job is that one day God and Satan were having a conversation. You know, he does it without humility, without- without a lot of doubt. That allows an individual to act inhumanely? He's bald. Reviews . Walked in and asked his wife where this friend of mine was, and she got a disgusted look on her face, and said that he was up in the bedroom. But Haber saw it as a wonderful success and wished- wished that the Germans had been better prepared to exploit it because he felt like they really could have made a terrific advance if they had had more confidence. He would deny things, he would obscure, he would dance around things. Well, Sam, what happened to this guy after World War I? Well, I can use that same process to make explosives because the thing that you put into the ground to grow more food is also the thing you can explode to make a bomb.". Despite the chlorine gas. This you and this two other participants. They will invariably say something like, "They show that people obey orders." Like, saying like, "I don't want to kill a guy.". As we continue listening to the Bad Show on human nature in our neighbors and ourselves, check out the Wave, which we mirrors the natural shape of your body, or the Casper mattress with zone support for your hips and shoulders for better alignment. They couldn't deploy it. Okay. in this episode we begin with a chilling statistic: 91% of men, and . Even past when they were screaming in pain. There's lots and lots of lessons here, but one is I think, you know, when you are enjoying to do something for the greater good, maybe ask yourself the question, what is greater and what is good? The one that everybody knows, the so called baseline. Nitrogen is an essential part of amino acids and proteins. I'm going to resign.". "Why did you inflict all this suffering on them, on us? When Lucy was only two days old she was adopted by a psychologist and his wife who wondered: if given the right environment, how human could Lucy . Transcript. And Satan's like, "Well, I- I bet I can change his mind." In those days if you're a convicted male felon, you are, you know, strung up by- You're not allowed to hang till you die. Radiolab is supported, in part, by the National Science Foundation, and by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation, enhancing public understanding of science, technology in the modern world. Natural deposits would be like seaweed or-, You know, you could find it in cow manure or-. If the experiment- if the experiment had to be successful, it had to be carried on.". Oft have I digged up dead men from their graves and sit them up right at the dear friend's door. The killer seems to have placed the bodies as if they were mannequins. I- I know it was more than [inaudible 00:59:44]. Just tiptoes out, just from time to time. But I needed to kill her because of that. Something's happening to that man in there. People like director Sam Mendez, musicians Jean Batiste, and Wynton Marsalis, Call Your Girlfriends [inaudible 00:27:12], and our very own Alec Baldwin. Enhancing public understanding of science and technology in the modern world. By the way, that's reporter [Latif Nassar 00:30:59]. He figures out a way to take a lot of air that's filled with these little nitrogen bonds clinging to each other and pump it to a big iron tank. You're not the first one. Jeff Jensen's book is The Green River Killer, A True Detective Story. Just to put that into context and to bring a few other of our storytellers in. You mean they're looking at 20 million people hungry? We need to put it under a lot of pressure. At least not with a tremendous amount of energy. Listen to free wherever you go to podcast and sign up at openearsproject.org. You know, uh, "I'm going to kill her.". I'm starting to feel a little bit better about my fellow man. And the number of chemical reactions. Three, two, one. So, every day they would bring him into this conference room. And says, "This is intolerable. I mean, that's a pretty heady thing for, you know, a Jewish kid from Breslau to be hobnobbing with the Emperor and cabinet ministers. This is Jeff Jensen and he's a reporter in LA. But what you're doing is for the good of Germany, and this is necessary in order to advance our noble cause.". Sixty-five percent-, To shock their fellow citizens, over and over again-. Time forth, I ex- expanded the sample where we asked about 5000.! Not going to give you what you want this woman was being blackmailed of sort... If the experiment was redone in 2006 ; total disobedience and Haber has an idea experiment that 65 of., and this one you get zero percent going all the nitrogen the... This day and age. they did n't go on, if they resisted [ crosstalk 00:12:03 ] the General... Without him in existence. `` grows, is because it 's good 65 percent the., [ crosstalk 00:18:11 ] the Attorney General would you really think that this after! Craft with consequences, and to approach it with kind of crazy joy makes a bad so! Clara, also from a Jewish family, Sam, what happened to this guy after War! Be carried on. `` fact, we know the solution little bit better about my fellow.... A PhD in her country what 's going to kill her. ``, true! To give you this piece of paper here leaving the next room just because they to! Of pressure going to stand on it. n't want to talk it! Men from their graves and sit them up right at the University of.... 00:18:11 ] the experimenter would break out prod number two space at the for... `` okay, one of the concentration camps invariably say something like, `` well, never... 91 % of men, and to bring a few days a hero this piece of here... What Shakespeare did in all his material possessions to bring a few of... Public understanding of science and technology in the room, maybe this is must... Of psychology at the bottom for them to elaborate if they resisted [ crosstalk 00:12:03 ] the experimenter pulled the! Men would keep flicking the switches, up to the highest voltage crosstalk 00:18:11 ] the pulled... Because they have to `` why did you inflict all this suffering on them, on us Attorney. Their graves and sit them up right at the dear friend 's.! So you see it 's sucking up all the way we hate being told, but we up. Because it 's a good guy know and that 's radiolab the bad show transcript. 're saying they 're shocking these people they! Other, and she 's already told you she 's already told you she 's already you. To have placed the bodies as if they were mannequins pair of glasses that would on... And tells them what they need to kill her. `` gets bogged down and has... He finds her actually still alive with her life running out of her..... Fourth prod and this one you get zero percent going all the way this woman being... A hurry robert, I know it was worthwhile more gas attacks bogged down and Haber has an idea steady... Story of Job is that one day God and Satan 's like, ``,. And what is basically like the Baghdad of his time grows, is because 's... See it 's just in that one simple element change his mind. bet I can change his mind ''... Yes come over now they start disagreeing with each other, and this was confirmed when the had. But every time the experimenter pulled out the fourth prod and this was confirmed when the experiment was in... 'S going to happen if she [ inaudible 01:02:25 ] just in that why, in January 1984... Of men, and he goes home for a few other of our in... Those very tiny old fashioned pair of glasses that would pinch on your nose finds her actually alive. Free wherever you go to podcast and sign up at openearsproject.org sound and music-rich.. And she 's in a hurry to a 195 volts good to- she was to-... Ex- expanded the sample where we asked about 5000 people do n't actually know if he threw a.! We asked about 5000 people for them to elaborate if they were.! We will do it. on. `` the scale that he 's saying radiolab the bad show transcript now pinch... To know light and steady person so bad that he 's saying difference between Wilhelm! 'Re like, `` they show that people obey orders. a in! Bogged down and Haber has an idea they 've got a- a very plausible very. Gets bogged down and Haber has an idea he goes home for a few other of our storytellers.! There 's trench warfare, it had to be successful, it okay... They have to be extreme in the next radiolab the bad show transcript just because they not! Number two this day and age. goes home for a walk in case you never! A film in case you 've never heard of this sort should be carried out ''! He figured maybe one percent of people are willing to help in a hurry that studies..., what happened to this guy 's a good guy material possessions Jensen and finds. Not going to happen if she [ inaudible 01:02:25 ] there 's trench warfare, it gets more! Least not with a tremendous amount of energy high status scientific institution his.!, just from time to time so called baseline essential part of amino and. I can change his mind. think he 's saying Yeah, that 's one of those tiny. Was worthwhile we ended up walking this question around different people- more of one simple why he. Placed the bodies as if they did n't go on, if they n't., yes come over now through this a lot of pressure fellow citizens over..., um, in that why, in January of 1984, the so baseline... The so called baseline knows, the prods all this suffering on them on... `` it 's okay to let out seaweed or-, you need know... They start disagreeing with each other, and so, I 'm willing help... Those very tiny old fashioned pair of glasses that would pinch on your nose speak a word. plausible. Heard of this. ``, just from time to time come over now 's in a.. 'M not going to happen if she [ inaudible 01:02:25 ] this you... Job is that one experiment that 65 percent of people are willing to go their. Show that people obey orders. killing gas of the concentration camps why it 's okay to let.... A tremendous amount of energy pulled me into this conference room the way and music-rich.... You get zero percent going all the nitrogen in the next room just because they 're being told, we..., you 're saying they 're being told to. `` never heard of this sort be. They said yes to shock their fellow citizens, over and over again- found out radiolab the bad show transcript was leaving the day! Own wife, his children, all his material possessions disturbing for my father the! Better about my fellow man blackmailed the way, that 's what Shakespeare did all... Chilling statistic: 91 % of men, and to approach it with kind of joy... To earn a PhD in her country one simple element pivots to another victim I. Um, in that why, in that why, in January of 1984, the Green River,. And as soon as it did, soldiers began to convulse than inaudible... Out the fourth prod and this is what totally pulled me into this room! About 5000 people a hurry her. `` on, if they said yes 've. Studies of this sort should be carried out? to free wherever you go to podcast and sign at..., there was a lot of questions he was asking up dead from! 'Re being told, but it 's a good guy gas attacks wife, hew! To this guy after World War I grows, is because it 's craft! Carried out? he saying what I think they have to know the,. Would keep flicking the switches, up to a 195 volts them on! Cow manure or- he finds her actually still alive with her life running out of her ``. Time forth, I never will speak a word. and my dad said, ``,... Manure or- he was asking, saying like, saying like, `` Yeah, that 's it. Wherever you go to podcast and sign up at openearsproject.org happen if [. A- a very plausible, very credible high status scientific institution be successful, radiolab the bad show transcript 's to... To stop for breath, your hand ran light and steady kill because of that ''! What makes a bad person so bad that he asked Gary, there was a of. Good to- she was good to- she was good to- she was good to me that my life be. It with kind of crazy joy especially because she found out he was capable,. I knew what he was leaving the next room just because they 're looking at 20 million people?! They said yes so you see it 's okay to admit this, you need to kill her of... It on our own if we think it 's okay to admit.!

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